raise it himself the he sends us the right amount of spending cuts. >> bret: here is the trick. if he vetoes. >> no, he has to veto it to work. anytime you have to explain something, maybe not the best proposal. >> bret: bottom line, it could happen, debt increase could happen with no spending cut. >> right. you give the president, the congress has the power of the purse and they want to keep the control. all of a sudden you give it to the president. it's worth remembering why we're in the situation. congress did the equivalent of knowing that it had overstepped the limits on its credit card. it appropriated spending, it spent money that is more than limit on the credit card but it neglected to raise the limit when it approved the spending. now, in retrospect it has to do that and it doesn't want to. >> bret: republicans, charles, say keep cutting. don't, you know, push up against this and fight for the cuts. the base is outrageed. if you look at the internet and every place. >> but that is because the president holds the upper hand. he holds it for two reasons.